[MacRAM]

My take is that like TC has explained with his that the Bedplate design is unforgiving when it comes to poor assembly. That and or incorrect journal sizing causes bad clearances with the crank which leads to the possibility of shearing of the oil. This leads to heat, then further oil film protection degradation which ultimately leads to bearing/crank failure.

Again, most likely production related so they have no idea which trucks will have this problem. They wait for the phone to ring and have seen it now so frequently that they have worked out the process of dropping the pan to look for shavings as the trigger point for replacement.

I also personally feel a trained ear most likely could pick up the trucks that have the problem as I suspect the slight knock may be distinguishable long before failure or you would see shavings. Could FCA recall them all and check the bedplate crank bearings on every truck? For sure, but what they are doing now probably costs less.

Again, I am not an engineer but I am a gear head sitting here watching all of this with invested interest. I would suspect that the failure rate is high right now but manageable and they are attempting to solve the issue at the factory as they move forward.

All speculation though...

 

[AustinRam]

...

 

[MAS]

My first truck was a 1994 Chevy 1500 with a 350. It wasn't align honed inproperly and it started knocking before the first oil change. They tried to change the oil and say it was better, but it didn't fix it. Ended up getting a new crate motor for it with about 2k miles on it. With the new motor it was the best truck I have ever owned.

 

[MAS]

My first truck was a 1994 Chevy 1500 with a 350. It wasn't align honed inproperly and it started knocking before the first oil change. They tried to change the oil and say it was better, but it didn't fix it. Ended up getting a new crate motor for it with about 2k miles on it. With the new motor it was the best truck I have ever owned.

Also back in that day, it took a week to get a new motor and we were not given a loaner car.

 

[Art G]

Week 2 waiting for new engine in contact with FCA requested possible buyback not sure what will happen or how long it will take. should receive a call back Monday 10/3/16
did not get a complete diagnosis all the dealer told me is that there was bunch of metal shavings around the oil cooler lines,.

 

[BlueMerleBC]

I'd love to see the internal communications about this but unfortunately that's something that would probably only happen with a court-ordered subpoena.

Or an insider on one of the Forums which has not happened to date...sadly.

 

[SamFred]

Picked up my truck on Thursday, 14 days at the dealer which I didn't think was too bad. Drove it about 130 miles on Friday, popper the hood this morn......black sludge in the coolant. Dealer says they replaced all hoses. So either they didnt, or this motor is FUBAR also.

My tech told me they had another come in with blown engine about a week ago.

 

[Haul N Grass]

I'm not buying crankshafts..Line boring needs to be tits on when using bed plate design, this man does a good job of explaining the process.

I have experienced out of balance crankshafts first hand , they can't hold an RPM , and when you dis assemble them you always find a abnormal wear spot on the bearings. And never bothered but I'm sure they would be showing metals in the oil sample, because of bearing wear .

Now if the bed plate was bored off center , and if so it would be creating a bind on bearings and crankshaft? Correct? But we still haven't seen any oil samples with elevated metals,Correct? And we have seen a member send out an oil sample and it came back with flying colors,Perfect! then 2 weeks later blew his engine ?
TC ,I'm just playing the devils advocate , I enjoy engine ,mechanical debating

 

[Haul N Grass]

Slow death by other means , (EGR) That won't show elevated metals with oil samples , but bad machining would show up in the earliest oil samples taken . I'm just debating your theories on bad line boring or bad machined parts . And I mentioned before my friend has purchased hundreds of Cummins and they've had only 1 failure with less than 1000 miles , which this is a perfect example of a bad part .

 

[howie12]

Slow death by other means , (EGR) That won't show elevated metals with oil samples , but bad machining would show up in the earliest oil samples taken . I'm just debating your theories on bad line boring or bad machined parts . And I mentioned before my friend has purchased hundreds of Cummins and they've had only 1 failure with less than 1000 miles , which this is a perfect example of a bad part .

Hauln,

I am having a hard time with your statement. If EGR is going to kill the engine it must be by wear and if there is wear there will be elevatyed metals in the oil analysis. Surely the engine doesn't die from just plugging the intake. Seems like the foaming TC mentions should deal with that OK.

 

[Haul N Grass]

Lack of lubrication , from soot and sludge ,if it was only plugging the intake there wouldn't be any failures , they'd just run bad .

 

[Haul N Grass]

Totally agree,...... if 2017's have failures as in past FCA did a terrible purchase of VM Motori, they should have stuck with Cummins, shared a little profit and in long run , both companies would have came out way ahead.
FCA 's greedy business decision .

 

[shaggn85]

That just 1 possibility, I think more then just 1 cause is happening to these motor. I have spoke up that chain at other power plant makers, NO way the failure rates that are posted / pictured allowed to happen for years, They would keep pulling motors off the line until discovery, or They would halt production on just the failures alone.

FCA ...My guess 100s of failed motor to inspect and use the info on pulled line motor inspections.

If 2017s have the same failure rate FCA Motori Production Is FUBAR.

agreed... if they can't lock this down in 3 years of production, thats bad.

 

[Top]

Old habits die hard

VM Motori is infamous for bottom end failure in Europe.
I know I've posted this before, but here it is again.
From BITOG
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3101581/4/2014_Jeep_Grand_Cherokee_-_VM_

That is why I got my 2006 Jeep Liberty Diesel. Chrysler had no idea how to up charge it. I got it for a whopping $500 more than the 3.7L gas version! Great little VM 2.8L 4 banger. I got onto VM's website when I bought this, and they designed it to be for a B50 life (less than 50% of the engines would need major repair or overhaul) of 300,000 miles. Same engine they where putting in some marine applications. Jeep had been selling the Liberty (called Cherokee in Europe) with 2.5L VM diesels for some time and decide to build 11,000 for the N. American market with the 2.8L. Too bad the 2007 emission mandates killed the project. And I think those emission standards are the primary inflated cost of the diesel GC now.

The 2.5 VM engined Cherokee (Liberty) was much more common with the 2.8 in Europe.

The 2.5 was found mostly in more lower spec models.

The 2.5 engine has been fitted in the TX4 London Taxi since 2006. And has now been fitted with a dpf system to meet Euro5

It isn't the most reliable engine.

And needs very good maintenance.

Most common fault is bottom end failure.

I used to rent out a TX4. It is still on the original engine at well over 200k. But many have failed before 80k.

Trick seems to be use full synth oil.

Many that have gone bang were dealer serviced. And they specced semi synth.

Haven't heard of any going bang that have been ran on fully synth.

Only time i used semi i changed it at 6/7k

I found lowest oil use, the engine also seemed a bit quicker believe it or not, with good old Mobil 1 0w40 New Life.

I do like the look of the new Jeep above.

But find it a little too similar to the new RR and RRS.

Both of which have the awesome 3.0v6 twin turbo diesel as fitted to my Jag. And with the later 8speed ZF box which is super smooth.

I would have a diesel Range Rover Sport to be honest.

But certainly wouldn't be unhappy with a Jeep like the OP's.

Jeeps depreciate badly in the UK.

So it is on the shortlist when the Pathfinder has to go.

 

[AustinRam]

...

 

[Anomaly]

Another Question , Why would Penske, Detroit Diesel, GM all bail on VM Motori, GM Bought 50% form Penske (Penske at one time own 100% of VM) Why did the Russian company (GAZ) cancel it purchase form Penske (50%) I'm thinking Fiat has $100 million (min) into VM L 630/3.0 , This engine had to be a Hero in N/A in order for it to pencil out. O this is going to get ugly.

How it got to be 1 of 10 best engines in 2014 is clouded over by 3 years of high production rate failures.

"During a 2-month testing period, Ward's editors evaluate each engine according to a number of objective and subjective criteria in everyday driving situations — there is no instrumented testing. The selection takes into account power and torque output, noise, vibration and harshness (NVH) levels, technical relevance, and basic comparative numbers. Each engine competes against all others."

The above says nothing about reliability or longevity. The best engines are selected almost entirely on the subjective opinions of the editors. IMO, that could earn the worst reliable engine in the world a place on Ward's best ten.

 

[2443]

I'm not buying crankshafts..Line boring needs to be tits on when using bed plate design, this man does a good job of explaining the process.

I have experienced out of balance crankshafts first hand , they can't hold an RPM , and when you dis assemble them you always find a abnormal wear spot on the bearings. And never bothered but I'm sure they would be showing metals in the oil sample, because of bearing wear .

Now if the bed plate was bored off center , and if so it would be creating a bind on bearings and crankshaft? Correct? But we still haven't seen any oil samples with elevated metals,Correct? And we have seen a member send out an oil sample and it came back with flying colors,Perfect! then 2 weeks later blew his engine ?
TC ,I'm just playing the devils advocate , I enjoy engine ,mechanical debating

I'm still of the mindset that the cranks are faulty. Either they are not forged to the right spec and/or not machined to the right spec. Perhaps the blocks are fine, just the cranks are bad. This could explain the normal OA readings & then sudden failure. Just as 97 pointed out, this is complete speculation.

 

[2443]

Another Question , Why would Penske, Detroit Diesel, GM all bail on VM Motori, GM Bought 50% form Penske (Penske at one time own 100% of VM) Why did the Russian company (GAZ) cancel it purchase form Penske (50%) I'm thinking Fiat has $100 million (min) into VM L 630/3.0 , This engine had to be a Hero in N/A in order for it to pencil out. O this is going to get ugly.

How it got to be 1 of 10 best engines in 2014 is clouded over by 3 years of high production rate failures.

I agree TC. I also find it ironic that Banks is so sold on this motor, but their version is somewhat different & Banks refuses to speak with anyone regarding the ED. They know something & they aren't talking either.

I watched Motor Trend's test of the new Mazda Miata vs. the new Fiat 124 Spider - both are built in the same factory using different engines. They are the same car, but the Fix It Again Tony Version falls on its face. 2017 Fiat 124 Spider: Is the Fiata as Good as the Miata? - Ignition Ep. 160 via MOTOR TREND News for iPhone

 

[sirsleeper]

I agree TC. I also find it ironic that Banks is so sold on this motor, but their version is somewhat different & Banks refuses to speak with anyone regarding the ED. They know something & they aren't talking either.

Maybe they do know something and FCA settled with them not to say a word.

Anyone able to hack emails? Maybe the day we find out is the day wikileaks lets us all in on the secret



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[howie12]

Another Question , Why would Penske, Detroit Diesel, GM all bail on VM Motori, GM Bought 50% form Penske (Penske at one time own 100% of VM) Why did the Russian company (GAZ) cancel it purchase form Penske (50%) I'm thinking Fiat has $100 million (min) into VM L 630/3.0 , This engine had to be a Hero in N/A in order for it to pencil out. O this is going to get ugly.

How it got to be 1 of 10 best engines in 2014 is clouded over by 3 years of high production rate failures.

GM didn't bail fully. I believe the Colorado diesel is a VM design albeit not built by them but built by GM in SE Asia.